Saturday, October 17, 2009

Joel The K's Thoughts On God

Greetings brethren and sistren. Welcome to Patriots Cave. It has been many moons since Patriots Cave has posted an article on spirituality, religion and/or faith. As you know, it is a touchy subject. I (Joel the K) recently left a comment on my friend's blog.It is a Christian blog. I should not have done that. What was I thinking? It's his blog. He can say whatever he wants to say. Who am I to tell him what to say or what not to say? I made a mistake when I left the comment. I should have kept my thoughts to myself. But it's out there now. I said I would address his response to my comment on the next Patriots Cave post. This post is going to cost me a good number of readers, and probably offend a good many more. But I said I would do it, so here goes.+++++++ What caught my attention was my friend's use of the word "lie". He was talking about 2012 and reincarnation. Now both of these subjects are a matter of belief. We cannot prove what 2012 will bring. And we cannot prove what happens after our body dies. We have beliefs about these things. To say that something is a lie, implies deliberate deception, motive, and possibly malicious intent. So you see, I took offense to reincarnation being included in an article about "lies". +++ My initial comment was hasty and not well worded. I retracted most of that first comment. My friend asked me to show him my proof of reincarnation. As far as 2012 is concerned, it would take about 8 months to lay all that out. I did find my friend's handling of the Mayan culture overly euro centric though. But that is his opinion, he has every right to express it. I have studied the Mayan culture more than most I feel, and they were extraordinary astronomers and architects. Many are taken back by the fact that the Mayans thought that only blood sacrifice could save humanity. People call the Mayans "brutal savages" and "pagans". But Christians also believe that a blood sacrifice was required to save us. There are plenty of people who find the story of Christ on the cross revolting and barbaric, just like others view the Mayan blood sacrifices. Also, the Mayans are not the one's telling us "we must believe them, or we will be tortured with fire for all of eternity". The Mayans never said "believe in me or I will torture you forever and ever". The Mayans are not asking anything from us. They were extraordinary people with an extraordinary knowledge of our solar system and our galaxy. They were able to predict eclipses near to a tolerance of one second. I think the Mayans human sacrifice was barbaric, and brutal. I also think most of you are barbaric and brutal for the slaughter, torture and consumption of hundreds of millions of cows. In my eyes, killing a cow is worse than killing and eating a German Sheppard or a Cocker spaniel. MUCH worse. But it is due to my personal beliefs that I see it this way. There are also some very good scientific reasons that eating cows is destructive to every man, woman, and child on this planet. I have explained those reasons before here in Patriots Cave, and I'm sure I will explain them all again, but that is not the main topic of discussion this time. This discussion is about faith, religion, dogma and the like. Let us move on with it.
I take issue with many Christians who advertise that they have a monopoly on God and Truth. Christians who broadcast a message, telling us that we must believe that a man named Yeshua Ben Yosef, died on a cross, was buried, and came back to life three days later. We must believe that this is true, OR ELSE. We must believe that this really happened, or else we will be tortured in a burning, sulphurous pit. Our sentence, for the crime of not believing this story, will not be 3-15 years. It will not be 75 years. It won't even be 90 trillion years! No. For the crime of being "born into sin", and "not believing the story", we are to be sentenced to torture, pain, fire, agony, and pain beyond all comprehension, FOREVER. As in, it will never, EVER, end. We are expected to believe that this punishment was deemed to be appropriate by God, and that this god is a loving god, who loves us so much. Believe, OR ELSE. That is the message when it is boiled down to its essence.
Brethren and sistren, I believe in God. I believe that God is beyond what any of us has the capacity to understand. So do not think that I am atheist. I do not, however, believe the story that we are told, about Jesus being crucified for our sins, and that all who do not believe, will be sentenced to torture for ever and ever. If you are Christian, I doubt you will even read the rest of this post, because by now, your heart is racing, your breathing is shallow, and your emotions are over-riding your power of clear thought. Nevertheless, for the record I shall continue. Here are a few of the BIG problems I have with Paul's version of Christianity:
1. The penalty for not believing is eternal torture, yet Jesus(Yeshua) did not feel the need to put pen to paper himself. He could have. Something this important would certainly merit being written. Instead, we are left to argue over who the authors of the 4 gospels are, why many of the gospels were removed from the cannon, and ten thousand other interpretations by 10,000 or more other scholars, historians, religious, and layman alike.
2. The Supreme Personality of Godhead can do everything Joel the K can do and more. Would you agree? Would it stand to reason, that if I can do something, God can do it better? If I have intelligence, God has more? If I can see, God can see better? Okay. Here is another problem with the "believe or else burn" dogma: I can forgive. I can love others, especially my own children. If Joel the K can forgive, then God can forgive even more. NOT less. I would not send my children to suffer forever in a fire-pit, no matter what they said to me, no matter what they called me, no matter what story of mine they didn't believe. THAT, brethren and sistren, is only ONE of the BIG clues, that tells me, that a human being is the author of that "believe or burn" deal. Now any well rehearsed Christian will immediately come back with something to the effect of "God loves you so he sent Jesus to die for you". No. I'm not buying that. I have God-given reason and intuition, and I know when something is not right. And THAT ain't right. The ALL-WISE, ALL-KNOWING CREATOR of the universes, is not an egomaniac who has a need to be praised and worshiped. God is more advanced than me in EVERY aspect. God would not create spiritual beings, send them a tattered mix of ancient myths, and fry us in a crock pot forever for getting His or Her name wrong. And for you Christians who would "pray for me" to hit my knees and beg Jesus not to torture me, please DON'T. Because IF God WERE that shallow, that simple, that ridiculous, then I would want nothing to do with it anyway. But I know God loves me, and would never hurt me. I am part and parcel of God. God is the ocean, I am a drop of the ocean. We are the same in substance, but not the same in quantity or power. Yeshua walked this earth I believe that. Yeshua was crucified. I believe that. And so were alot of other people. Was he resurrected? Maybe. It has happened before. And it has happened since. God can lift a human body up from the grave quite easily. Is there anything God cannot do? I believe YOU could bring a dead man back from the grave, if you understood yourself fully. And you understood universal laws and principles, which would give you great faith, which would make the impossible, possible. +++ It is a shame that evil men corrupted the teachings of Jesu. But these same teachings are taught by the other true saints, who fully knew themselves and communed directly with God. +++ The secret societies have gotten to ALL religions brethren and sistren. Even the Holy books I hold most dear, have been infiltrated by the evil ones. I do not claim to be immune. Or that my Holy book is all-pure. They have all passed through the filter of humanity. For good or ill. If God was so pressed for us to say certain words and read certain books, then God could tell us directly anytime. Yes? Forget about the pat answer that the preachers give for that. They will go on about how God wants to test us and blah blah blah. Use YOUR mind. All the Holy books contain Truth. All of them contain lies. When I read the scriptures I use my God-given intuition, the Truth resonates with Love. When it starts going into control, and threats, and fear, then I know just where that came from. There is no way that God would punish a Buddhist monk who led a pure, saintly life of kindness and love. Or a kindly Muslim. Or a noble Jewish person. Or a sincere Pagan. Or a loving atheist. God is not capable of that kind of egotistical, sadistic, lunacy. And if God is capable of that, then it isn't God. There. I'll deal with reincarnation later. If any of you leave a comment, DO NOT use scripture to back up your argument. I could do the same with my Gita and it won't mean a thing to you unless you have faith in The Gita. If you are going to comment, use your own mind, your own heart, and your own God-given guts.

14 comments:

Outraged Patriot said...

Great post Joel! I agree with what you are saying here. My sister is a hard core born again christian and can quote scripture so well it amazes me. But we have some large, essential differing beliefs. I consider myself and Essene christian. We have alot of similar beliefs as buddist, we are vegetarian, live simply with a profoundly gentle faith and we believe from writings that have been covered up and taken out of the "traditional" bible that Jesus taught both vegetarian and reincarnation lessons. I live my life, as well as I can, honestly and with spiritual integrity. Yet my sister is always sad for me and sure I am going to hell because I don't follow her dogma. I have friends here in South Dakota that are Lakota. Spiritual leaders of their community. I have shared in there sweat lodges and prayed with them during their Sundances. I have felt more spiritually connected to god and felt a very loving divine presence while praying in these sweat lodges. It is profound to sit in these "wombs" and pray for everyone you know, your entire community and things that are bothering you. I have seen real physical and emotional healing there. And yet my sister can not see it. She believes it is "heathen" to do such things. I truely do not understand why people cannot see the Divine in things around them unless it is bordered by what is familiar. I think God wrote many books and visited many people, not just one group of white people in the desert in the middle east.

Joel the K said...

How fortunate you are Opie, to be able to participate in the ancient traditions of Turtle Island. I have always desired to take part in a sweat lodge. Even more so, I have longed to participate in the Native American Church's Peyote sacrament. Years ago I partook in San Pedro sacrament, but without a Roadman, it was not the same. I appreciate your comment O.P., thank you. I just want to repeat what I said about regretting going to my friend's blog and stirring it up. I should not have done it. But there's no use dwelling on my mistake any more than I already have. He was my boyhood running mate. We were inseperable. We grew up together from 5th grade until maybe 9nth or 10nth grade. This blog post is like a release from a pressure valve, I have been told so many times that I better start believing or I must pay the ultimate price. I guess I couldn't hold it in any longer. That is what Patriots Cave is to some degree. An outlet for me to express myself in a lasting way. It beats kicking the dog and complaining to my wife. ha ha. Thanks again.

Joel the K said...

When I said I have been told so many times, I do not mean that it was my blogging friend who I heard it from all the time. It was not. He has never pointed the finger at me directly like others have. I just want everyone to know that.

moshe said...

gutsy post k. the pic at the top, that is p.Yogananda isn't it? his writings in the collection [metaphysical meditations] are really awesome. by the way, reincarnation is also a jewish belief. chazak v'amatz!(be strong and courageous)a jewish fan

Joel the K said...

Chazak v'amatz Moshe. Thank you for your visit and for your participation. Hari Aum.

ladyandromeda said...

Well said Joel the K. Truth Alone Triumphs.

Brent Chrishon said...

Hi Joel,
I enjoy your posts...listen, just a mention... I am a Seventh day Adventist. We are called the people of the book, meaning the Bible. We historically have had (and still have) trouble with legalism (hey, Pharisees need Jesus' redeeming love also - Nicodemus anyone!)
We honor all Ten of the commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath; which is a major break with basically all main line churches. The reason for our beliefs... simply the Bible, not ecclesiastic councils where men makes laws and rules...

Why am I saying all of this? Because I also know, from the Bible, that the doctrine of eternal torment (God burning sinners in hell FOREVER) is totally foreign to the scriptures.
I am a Bible believing Christian, and I know that God will not burn the lost, who refused to believe in Him and come to Him and be saved forever.

Not, guessing that would make a difference to you. Just thought I'd share. If you'd like to know what the Bible actually teaches on the subject, it won;t be hard for you to research on your own, in your own time.

Most of the churches and people that claim to be Christians, believe lies and worship Satan.

In the book of John, Jesus told the CHURCH LEADERS, that they were of their father: "THE DEVIL" (He said it to their face and told them plainly - the church people who claimed that they loved God). In Revelation the churches are called Babylon (see Rev. 18 and 14:6-12)

Please don't be distracted by the lies. The jews thought they understood the scriptures also, but said in reality they were ignorant of what God was like and what He was teaching. And many people were lost for believing what their leaders said God was like. Church leaders...

please read "And There is the Hiding of His Power". I am not trying to convert you, I just think you would find it interesting. I wrote it. I now live in South Korea. I had to publish it with my own money. The church would not endorse it, yet it is Bible truth.
Even if you just look at the pictures which I painted upon wooden tables on the cover...you will understand the whole message, without reading the book.

Your friend in open mindedness and mutual appreciation for the beautiful people of the world with their peculiar beliefs and special revelations of the God of truth,

Brent Oliver Chrishon

(for he is not a jew which is one outwardly, and circumcision in the flesh, but he is a jew, who is one inwardly and circumcision is of the heart - Romans chapter 2) (I know those who say they are jews, BUT DO LIE, but who are of the synagouge of SATAN...behold I will make them come before you and worship at your feet, that they may know that I haved loved you - and that you know Me - Revelation chapter3)

Ted said...

I love you Joel

Joel the K said...

Wow. A little bit ago I was sitting outside thinking, and I thought of this situation I commented myself into, and how I may have caused pain. Then I though to myself ... I should send Ted an e-mail that says "how'bout them cardinals" like people do when the conversation gets too heavy. Then I see on my e-mails a comment from you. All I can say to that is "whoa". Impressive. Not that you said it for that result. But nevertheless, impressive. You are changed to your very core Ted. We should introduce ourselves again. Because we are not the same people we were when last we met I feel. Thank you for your kindness. +++ I just have to say to Brent Crishon, "Brent, thank you for your comment, thank you for your visit. I will check out your work, especially your paintings. But I am not interested in having anyone worship at my feet Brent. Except maybe Hillary Duff. Hey, I never said I was a saint. ++++ Ted, forgive me for being pompous. Your Faith just went up a notch in my book.

Ted said...

Hi, My name's Ted :)

Thank you for the kind message, I'm glad we can still be friends and look forward to getting to know each other better.

I'll write you more later when I have some time. I wrote a song for Russ that I'm going to go practice and then I gotta hit the sack. I've been sick for a couple weeks and work is tiring me out.

Ted-

Wonder Gal said...

Yoel, shalom. I agree with brother Brent, but coming from a messianic ("almost-jewish") viewpoint, in my experience the christians tend to grab onto one or two small phrases & build big things from them. They don't have the patience to dig diligently for the treasures in the Torah. This is why they assumed about Hell. Yeshua did say "where the fire is never quenched...", but He did not say they suffer torment for ever. Eventually -- as Judaism teaches -- eventually the wicked soul disintegrates & does not suffer any more. the fire continues, the soul does not. (my christian uncle would flip if he read that).
Your regrets are understandable. I think we have almost all done that very thing --I know I have !! -- sending some words out into cyberspace & thinking afterwards. Oops ! but thank you for your honesty , both about the oops & about your friendship. your story encourages me to be so open & honest.
I believe the Creator is so loving, so determined, so creative, He is able and willing to use many ways to reach out to his dear creation & try to communicate with them. whether a native ceremony or a liturgical church service or the vast range in between, God waits for a chance to commune with us. I believe Yeshua is the supreme Door to God; but I cannot believe that God is as narrow as some christians say he is. He is God, after all. he knows our hearts better than we do. He even knows what I would have done & didn't... even I don't know that ! so, please trust that God your Creator does love you, he does know your name, & he does rejoice when you turn to him.
Thank you again for sharing your story. Shalom.

Jim said...

Using your own logic - "Would it stand to reason, that if I can do something, God can do it better?"

Are you not capable of causing suffering to others? Why then would God not be capable of eternal suffering?

Joel the K said...

I said God is BETTER. Not worse. It's pretty simple.

Brent said...

Hi Joel,
Brent Chrishon here. You're openminded and interested in different things. In Cambodia in 2007, an amateur guitar player put a tune to and sang these words I penned from Psalm 22 as inspiration. I really love this song and how my friend Larry Puffer interpreted it into song. I hope you enjoy it... give it a chance... I think it's beautiful: http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/29417232/Psalm_22_Jesus'_Love_song_on_the_Cross

Also I believe that Jesus "still sheds His sacred blood" in the heavenly sanctuary. Behold the evidence: http://www.scribd.com/doc/37352916/Messiah-Still-Sheds-His-Sacred-Blood-6th-of-7-present-truth-messages-for-this-time

you'll also find in my writings at www.SCRIBD.com/chriser0 a Biblical rejection of the mystical Trinity doctrine.

God works in mysterious ways Joel (I mean using YOU to do awesome things). Give this peculiar work a special consideration.

Pray for me that I can return and go East (I was blessed to go to South Korea and Japan, the east of the world) ...now the eastern call returns... can a southern guy go northeast in the U.S.?

Here I am Lord send me.

brent